Jervois Mining (ASX: JRV) – How Important is Cobalt to the Battery Revolution? (Transcript)

How much Cobalt, Nickel and Copper does the world need? We interviewed Bryce Crocker, CEO of Jervois Mining to get his take.

Click here to watch the interview.

Matthew Gordon: Now we saw you back in around 12th March, middle of March. You’d done, or just announcing the M2 story, but you’ve been quite busy since then.

Bryce Crocker: We have.

Matthew Gordon: Why don’t you start. Give us a two minute overview without getting into too much detail, about the recent news. And then we’re going to get in to it.

Bryce Crocker: Well I guess we’re looking at creating a platform that institutional investors can get exposure to battery raw materials. We’re big believers in thematic. We believe the investment alternatives that are open to institutional, and also retail investors, are substandard in terms of quality of the assets, and the quality of the management. And so we’re a group of largely ex-Glencore executives, who’ve come in Jervois and are looking to make a difference.

Matthew Gordon: Okay. So you’re focusing on Cobalt at the moment.

Bryce Crocker: Cobalt, Nickel, Copper because Cobalt obviously comes with both products generally.

Matthew Gordon: Fantastic. Just for people who don’t quite understand where you’ve been, and where you’ve come from. You mentioned Glencore there. Big name.

Bryce Crocker: They’re a large Cobalt producer. I guess I was part of the founding management team in Xstrata. Peter Johnson who’s our chairman. Peter ran WMC’s  Nickel business back in the days and then worked for Glencore for a long time sat on Glencore’s Executive Committee ran their global Nickel assets. So obviously Glencore have always been the largest Cobalt trader we’ve got a group of executives who’ve come out of that platform and now we’re looking to create as I said an investable alternative. We know Cobalt well We’ve obviously got a lot of history and the understanding the DRC to the extent one can understand that jurisdiction and but equally creating something that has decent assets non DRC sourced units which is increasingly.

Matthew Gordon: Why is that important?

Bryce Crocker: I think downstream users are increasingly concerned with the access and supply and the potential of that contaminates or is blended in with other way with regular unions

Matthew Gordon: When you say contaminate,  What’s the underlying issue here?

Bryce Crocker: The difficulty with Cobalt is tracking where units… It’s a complicated flow sheet it’s mined it’s concentrated. Usually it’s leached it’s refined and so it’s blended in a number of phases. And approximately in 2019 you probably had 30,000 tonnes of Cobalt in 120,000 ton market which came from artisanal sources which are essentially men women and children tens and tens of thousands hundreds of thousands in the case of last year. And that material is finding its way through the flow. The Cobalt chain particularly any units that flow through China and that creates challenges. When I was working with Xstrata Glencore we would provide guarantees to our customers to Intel, Dell. There were two limbs that we provided guarantees, on one was the non-conflict material which was obviously quite easy given we control Katanga and Rotunda in the southern part of the DRC well away from any conflict zones. So conflict Cobalt is somewhat of a misnomer but the artisanal issue is real. Nobody wants to have an iPhone or an electric vehicle with a battery that’s essentially represented by a significant component of children which had been working under terrible conditions unsafe conditions in mines underground in the DRC.

Matthew Gordon: It’s the child labour component that people are…

Bryce Crocker: The child labour is a significant social issue both in the DRC and also for Western consumers.

Matthew Gordon: I guess you’re touching upon also there in terms of tracking this there’s some sort of block chain component to it, or is it more basic than that?

Bryce Crocker: These initiatives underway. But I mean I’ve worked in Cobalt for a long time and I can tell you the trading is a complex industry. it’s a niche industry and it’s opaque industry and there’s going to be real value if we can… for those that can create an operating company. So we’re not promoters we’re not looking to kind of assemble an aggregated portfolio of assets and then move on we’re going to construct an operating company. And because we’re constructing an operating company there’s a real value for those downstream users to have sources of supply which don’t involve anything from the DRC at all.

Matthew Gordon: Fantastic. Okay. Let’s go back to the Glencore bit. You come from a big company big exposure big projects around the world and you come into the junior space. Okay so I imagine I’d like you to Tell me that’s a very different environment. I mean how has your thinking had to change for some parts of this or is it the same for all that.

Bryce Crocker: I think it. I mean I’m from the Xstrata side I saw as part of what we sold to Glencore in 2015 but I work closely with Glencore and the rest of the team is largely being Glencore. If you came from a different large Mining company I think would make more of a difference. Glencore is very obviously it’s an owner operated principal type business. obviously junior mining company is different in terms of the infrastructure and the level of support in the…the way we’re set up organisationally is certainly. But I think that we’re a group of like minded individuals who purposely left large companies not because we couldn’t stay employed with large companies but because we wanted to do something different and essentially create a mid-tier company and we’ve got the opportunity at this end of the market. If you look back when we founded Xstrata. The reason why we did that was because the people wanted an investment alternative they had more beta if you like. They’re just purely choosing between Rio, BHP and Anglo. And that was essentially the fund manager investment decision options that they had at the time in London here. And I think what we’re looking to do with Jervois again create something that’s got a management team that is at a different level of quality than typically exists in the junior mining sector. Not always but Obviously management of the junior mining sector is perhaps not as strong as it ought to be and particularly is really focused on getting into operations and creating an operating company. So to take something that was essentially capitalised at a very low level and then build that up over time.  That’s exciting. Building mines and commissioning mines operating mines. That’s… it’s a part of it.

Matthew Gordon: I guess it’s very exciting. You know you’re in control of your own destiny to some degree obviously there’s some variables outside which you can’t control but you’re making decisions here. But sticking on this. As I understand it you’ve acquired two companies since I’ve known you so you’re quite acquisitive. That’s pretty impressive.

Bryce Crocker: We’ve got a couple of shareholder votes to get through. But where I think we’re sitting there is there’s small steps but they’re setting up… they’re important steps to set up the platform of what we want to do.

Matthew Gordon: Okay. And I want to come on to your strategy because I like it. I think it’s a good strategy. I’m interested in the team’s experience but if I look at M&A, you going to require to raise some money for some of this. You know to get this going. I know you’re doing deals, we can talk about how you’ve optimised that and reduced shareholder dilution et cetera but again coming from the larger background, as you say fund managers they had a choice of three or four guys to go to and that’s the background you’ve come from in this junior space I mean have you had to create new relationships? Who are you talking to for funding?

Bryce Crocker: It’s very different. It’s very different. It’s been a learning process for me and then I’ve worked independently since we the management team sold to Glencore in 2013 on behalf of the rest of the Xstrata shareholders and I’ve enjoyed working at the smaller level. I mean obviously our background in association and we work a lot with private equity but equally I think at this end of the market there’s… you have to build up the retail following you need a balance between strategic investors or if you’re frame private equity as strategic. But retail is important. Liquidity is important. If I look at most companies that are sub 100 more market cap there’s an argument as to that their ability to succeed, the liquidity is limited and that kind of creates a lot of challenges for both your clients and institutional clients as well

Matthew Gordon: Well I imagine with the institutions you’re having different sorts of conversations. it’s like they need to see X market cap they need to see why revenue potential near-term revenue. So those are very different conversation. So but you’re getting in there, obviously working.

Bryce Crocker: Yeah so far I mean it’s been a difficult market but we’re excited. Both of these transactions set us up. And in terms of really making that transition to become a producer particularly the Cobalt merger.

Matthew Gordon: Yeah. Well let’s talk about okay. So when I spoke to you, you were telling me about M2Cobalt great asset another great asset, great exploration team. Tell me about ECobalt because I think… The thing I thought quite interesting about that you’ve got a neighbour that lives next door to it this year you might know. Is Glencore not an owner of Assets nearby?

Bryce Crocker: No… Glencore and Blackbird correct, they’ve got the old Miranda close site, correct.

Matthew Gordon: Got it. Okay. So tell us about this transaction.

Bryce Crocker: So I guess why we’re attracted to a Cobalt the Idaho Cobalt project is it has the ability to transition us to become a producer. Much more quickly than could otherwise have occurred. So Kabanga in Tanzania and Kilembe in Uganda, they are assets that are in negotiation with both the governments in their respective jurisdictions they’re exciting assets that shouldn’t naturally sit within companies Jervois size. So that’s why we’re chasing them. but equally if we’re awarded tenure by either government tomorrow realistically they’re three years from first production. So three years is obviously it’s a reasonable period of time in the eyes of capital markets. the attraction of Idaho is  it’s been significant investment at site. They are $100M in, the resource: The quality of the resource is high 0.6% Cobalt, 0.8% Copper. DRC type quality. Without being in the DRC. Small. Smaller than the DRC. That’s 5Mt of inferred resource not 50M or 250M but very high quality and very relatively low development risk. They’ve probably got… they’ve got a pathway for production. Once we finalise the definitive feasibility study when we take control. Once you start that box cut and open the portal you’re 12 months the first door on the mill and then the commissioning is almost instantaneous as opposed to a large metal… If you’ve got a large part metallurgical or hydrometallurgical facility you’ve got a three year commissioning period. Three year construction, three year commissioning very long dated very high risk. This… the CapEx is small.

Matthew Gordon: Why?

Bryce Crocker: It’s executable with a simple sulphide underground mine. The tonnage is… they published feasibility studies on 800T per day. Of which the mine and mill was around $50M at the time they’re increasing that now to 1,200T per day which is the capital is going to rise but not significantly. But these are the type of projects that companies our size should be doing. I don’t want to be a junior mining company, I’ve said it very clearly that where you’ve got a $50M market cap and you’ve got this project that requires half a billion dollars in equity it’s a waste of time. Who are you kidding. You can’t do that. All you can do is sell it.

Matthew Gordon: So tell me more about the deal. How do you structure that? You say “by taking control”, so what does that mean?

Bryce Crocker: So yes, there’s two transactions. There are plans of arrangements so there are no or at market mergers. Both the M2 merger, then the ECobalt merger, independent subsequent transactions. So the M2 circular goes out next week. So that’s essentially a prospectus on Jervois for all intents and purposes. it will contain the PEA on the Nico Young project in Australia. which is our foundation asset that goes out next week and the shareholder date for the M2 merger is 14th of June. There are plans and arrangements. We need sixty six and two thirds voting present for the M2 transaction we have over 50% lock up. High probability of that going through. High probability of both transactions going through but the lock up’s on M2 make it almost arithmetically certain.  The ECS transaction, because the transactions is separate, the circular for the ECS merger will go out immediately after the M2 shareholder vote. Once the positive votes received the ECS shareholder circular goes out and the shareholder date will be the third week of July. So after the third week of July the pro-forma based on current prices the pro-forma of market capitalisation in the group will be approximately $100M

Matthew Gordon: You’re up there. You’ve kind of leapfrogged up to where you got noticed

Bryce Crocker: Yeah I mean we’re not doing it just to get noticed. We’re not in the business of getting bigger. Just for the big… just to get bigger. But for the reasons that I outlined in terms of the asset it does transition us because we’re going to be in production far more quickly than we would have been otherwise. We’ve got a project that’s essentially halfway constructed that we’re going to finish. what it also means…I mean it always, we had a long debate, essentially myself and all of the board we’re all compensated on value per share. So we’re very focused on dilution very focused on how we manage the capital base. Essentially there was an opportunity. Sure, I don’t want to issue shares at 25 cents, I have a perception that that’s significantly undervalues Jervois. But also this was an opportunity where markets are weak, the opportunity for others to raise capital is constrained. And the relative under-performance of other stocks was obviously significant relative to where we were. So it created an opportunity for us to do a transaction on favourable terms and it also means for both M2Cobalt and ECobalt shareholders – they’re along for the ride, they’re part of the story that we’re now moving forward together we have a team that can deploy and can construct and commission finally the Idaho Cobalt project and I actually want to do it now while Cobalt markets are weak, because for all of our shareholders whether they’re currently Jervois, M2 or ECS shareholders we want to be in production when prices recover and prices will recover. That’s one thing to say.

Matthew Gordon: I think everyone’s a big buyer of the EV story, battery metals should be doing well, for some reason at the moment that’s a bit of a lull but it’s coming. I think that’s a story which is well told, you told it you know in various conversations that you’ve had. But I want to talk about, not necessarily about the deals that you’re doing, I want to talk about the deals that you’re going to be doing. So you’ve got a strategy here, your thesis is Cobalt Nickel and…

Bryce Crocker: Cobalt Nickel Copper.

Matthew Gordon: Copper. Of course. That’s your theme and you’re gonna stick with that’. you come from a background of big companies, want to build and mid-tier. You’re up to circa $600 US now potentially when these deals happen. what’s the future look like for you, what is the strategy? Are you going to continue an M&A strategy, are you going to be acquisitive?

Bryce Crocker: I’m a big believer in never boxing myself in especially not where cameras are rolling so I’m not going to say definitively I’m never going to do a transaction because then I’ll come back and do an activity level of X Larry. The audience can replay that. But equally. It’s not a scattergun approach because we want to build an operating company that has to be focused right now.

Matthew Gordon: On what?

Bryce Crocker: Focus on constructing operations and what we have now as part of the portfolio we’ve got essentially a development project in Idaho which needs to be built. we’re in discussions advanced discussions with as I said the governments in Tanzania and Uganda. So the way that we’re looking at from a portfolio perspective is Idaho is going to be core as part of what we do. East Africa is also important. will we not do another transaction? I think it would be… we’re looking at anything else very very carefully. I’m certainly being explicit now in institutions who I made here in London now that we won’t do DRC. up until now we’ve looked at assets in the DRC. We understand as much as one can the DRC and it’s a tough jurisdiction and for those reasons as well with the dealing, because we’re also running through our residual asset, core asset in Australia, The Nico Young project we’re looking for offtakers for that to partner. So that’s not an organisational focus for us, for capital perspective. We’re still managing  it, but we’re not allocating any capital and dealing with the AMS on that. It’s clear that having… having an entity that can provide raw materials that doesn’t have anything coming from the DRC is just…

Matthew Gordon: I get that, but the bit I want to understand is, you know, some companies create value by doing M&A constantly M&A just rolling up and they do drive share price that way, but they forget about the business. What you’re saying is we want to focus on the business. The value is going to be created through developing the three assets that we’ve got but you will look at other opportunities but your focus is on what you’ve got today.

Bryce Crocker: We’ve got our hands full organisationally with what we have. That’s not to say we wouldn’t look at other opportunities sometimes other opportunities come with teams such as the deal in Uganda with M2. We’ve got a team essentially that was already undertaking that exploration. So I’m a big believer in focus and not having a crap shoot and just going out and looking and kind of chasing assets and disparage geographies I think for juniors as well, or for small mining companies I mean obviously we’re heavily focused on Courtney DNA heavily focused on overhead on expenditure and it’s important to… if you really want to move forward projects you can’t do it sitting behind a desk you have to be out there and myself and the board are very hands on. It’s again a different type of culture I guess and our board meets monthly. I’m here in London with Peter Johnson and Simon kind. Now we’re heading back to Africa shortly. BRIAN KENNEDY My non-executive he’s been with me for seven or eight times to Africa since we joined 18 months ago. The board’s hands on we are really… it’s quite a different type. I guess when I look through and when we do these type of transactions with others you do see it level… And it’s fortunate for me the level of support I get from my board is very very different to many mining companies

Matthew Gordon: It’s interesting, the assets at the moment you know you’ve got I think Nico Young with a pre-feas due?

Bryce Crocker: Now. It comes out… the PEA comes out with the M2 circular. so the M2 circular is essentially, it’s a prospectus on Jervois for M2 shareholders, So that contains a 43-101 PEA.

Matthew Gordon: It’s in there OK, great

Bryce Crocker: So there’s a 500 page technical report and everybody’s going to look forward to that.

Matthew Gordon: We might have you summarise it, that might be the smartest thing to do. Okay. And then with Idaho that’s got a feasibility on the way, what’s the timing on that?

Bryce Crocker: We’re working through. Peter and I were there with our, some of our directors last week.  we’re working through and agreeing on what is going to be the work plan. finish the definitive feasibility study. So that when the shareholder vote yes goes through on the third week of July we’re ready to deploy essentially immediately. With regard to the drilling that’s required both to finalise metallurgical test work, improve the quality of the resource before mining.  And also just to really just we think optimise the DFS, the DFS significantly . That will be finished in March 2020. We’re already talking to finances on the debt side with the intention that we’ll construct immediately and then its 12 month runway As I said earlier. First all .

Matthew Gordon: Okay. And then Kilembe, obviously, exploration

Bryce Crocker: We’re making progress with both governments on prog. I mean our intel is very good.

Matthew Gordon: Progress on what?

Bryce Crocker: So if you take them in turn we’ve applied in Bangor in Tanzania. So get back is the best undeveloped Nickel sulphide deposit in the world by another 60Mt of sulphide resource at 4% Nickel equivalent. So it’s on a par with Thompson Manitoba Raglan voices by phenomenal asset. Obviously Tanzania has been through a difficult time politically or as it pertains to the mining industry. We’re talking to government. We’ve applied for what’s called a prospecting licence.

Matthew Gordon: All right. What’s that? And that just lets you continue what you’re doing?

Bryce Crocker: Essentially I mean obviously Glencore and Barrick spend $250M U.S. before the deposit was removed because they failed to develop it. So it’s called a prospecting licence but obviously there’s no prospecting that needs to be done. We just need to update the ESEA update the DFS and that’s a year process. Once we get tenure. we’re negotiating with the government there’s a couple of other parties who are also negotiating but we’re well-placed and the government also looks at us… they look at us credibly because they don’t see a junior mining company…

Matthew Gordon: When you say there’s a couple other parties there, what does that mean, on the same asset? are we bidding here or is it?

Bryce Crocker: That’s not a bidding process it’s a negotiation with the government as to how that money… how the project is best moved forward and you should have stewardship or ownership of that.

Matthew Gordon: And that’s I guess… And having worked in Africa myself for quite a few years, you’re gonna need to give them comfort or certainty and that’s got to come around your ability to finance moving this thing forward

Bryce Crocker: I think the government looks at us and this applies to Uganda as well. I mean if you look at the backgrounds of our boards collectively we raised I think $40Bn US in the mining industry so there’s probably only, aside from my co-founders at Xstrata, there’s a very small pool of people in mining who have done that

Matthew Gordon: True but there’s different circumstances. So you’re a new company. It’s your company your board’s company, shareholders’ company.

Bryce Crocker: But I think the credibility, the government they understand and we can raise the capital that there’s no… They look at us and they see that we have the technical ability to construct and operate mines. And they also I mean, ultimately it comes down to your track record. There’s plenty of junior to go through and say they can raise the capital.

Matthew Gordon: Well that’s the problem for these guys. This happens all too often people come and go “Yeah the money’s tight, it’s fine”, but it’s not, it’s a wing and a prayer. you think the conversations, you’ve been about to lend comfort.

Bryce Crocker: Yeah I think that they look at us and to be honest the financing isn’t…There are issues we’re working around with governments, ability to raise capital was not one of them.

Matthew Gordon: Great. Okay. Well that’s good news. What are the things that they ask you about? Just so, it’d be interesting to know.

Bryce Crocker: they want to under… Both countries want to understand What are you going to do from, how it’s going to be managed. They’re obviously looking at the way we’re building out the business and want to understand what they have as a priority which is understandable. I think there’s a greater focus now on environmental standards on social standards on the with community which places us in a good position because again we come from large mining companies. I’m a big believer in fit for purpose. So you don’t have to necessarily apply the same approach to capital intensity and de-risking in a junior mining company is what you do in a large mining company, you can kind of be more nimble and more agile, faster. But equally things like environmental standards safety standards they’re critical so that… the host governments they, I think, that’s where we have a competitive advantage over others. They do look at us and they look at how M2Cobalt has been operating in Uganda for example the kind of insight they were extremely well regarded. they’ve got a track history. They’ve been in the country as it pertains to Uganda protectorates. And we also through our history kind of know the asset and know the country quite well as well.

Matthew Gordon: That’s true, and what about from their side, of their side of the delivery. I mean what’s the mining code like in these countries? tax, royalties…

Bryce Crocker: Well Tanzania’s well publicised they’ve gone through some changes which have been complex. I mean we’re working through the government with those we’ve said that we believe we have a mechanism where we point whereby we will operate within their existing mining laws and that can be done. Uganda is very much open for business very positive very welcoming foreign investment into the mining sector and obviously Colombia. And the case CCL. See Cobalt refinery is a strategic asset for the country. I mean it when trial committee was operating it was 10% of the country’s GDP approximately.

Matthew Gordon: And You need some reminder of the terms again. You’re gonna be 100% owners of M2 and ECobalt?

Bryce Crocker: Correct. Their plans of arrangement. So essentially they become Jervois subsequent

Matthew Gordon: And you haven’t inherited any risks liabilities and all of that?

Bryce Crocker: Not that I… other over and above what was already in M2Cobalt and ECobalt. But obviously we had detailed due diligence on both

Matthew Gordon: Right. Let’s just recap for investors. Your plan here is to partner for Cobalt copper be a mid-tier. You’re at that phase at the moment where you’re having to have a conversation… no, you are having conversations about financing because you potentially are quite close to…

Bryce Crocker: My background’s in lending and you start conversations early. I mean I want to obviously get the most competitive source of finance and took in this for example Idaho.  And part of that involves making sure that the banks can do their due diligence. You’re not forced into alternative providers that many REITs.

Matthew Gordon: So people when they hear that they make assumptions around dilution. Okay. So…

Bryce Crocker: I think, I mean obviously at some point in time once the DFS is finalised we will be raising capital to, as part of an overall financing package.  To go into production but that’s of a very different base as to where we are now. At that point in time we’ve completed a definitive feasibility study. There’s a debt package in place that’s confirmed because equity is almost in the last path of tips. And I’m also very straightforward I mean people will sit here and I’ll talk, because I could not use equity I mean I could stream, I could use royalties.

Matthew Gordon: But it’s still dilutive…

Bryce Crocker: I’m a simple person and I… shareholders don’t buy our company for me to stream out Cobalt exposure. I think that’s rubbish. I’m not scared of equity and I think that we do it at the right time. Obviously where everyone associated with the company is highly motivated, personally motivated by the value for share. So we’ll finance in a measured and appropriate way. But also not introduce because… Idaho is part of our story it’s not the only story. I’m not going to gear off the company and introduce too much leverage by being afraid to issue equity. but these is the pool of capital that’s open for construction equity is large.

Matthew Gordon: That’s true. And so you’re trying to, again correct me if I’m wrong, you’re trying to move the company from a small player where perhaps it’s got more risk associated with it you know with lower market cap, the ability to raise capital et cetera to survive. You know wherever we are

Bryce Crocker: The company’s survived for a long time it has been on the ASX for 50 years. I just think that I mean we wouldn’t have assembled the board and the management team we had if we were looking to not build out a significant operating company.

Matthew Gordon: Well that’s what I’m getting to I think it strikes me through reading through the various material that is out there about you, you’ve got the mentality of a bigger company.

Bryce Crocker: Most junior mining companies they don’t want to do this because they don’t know.

Matthew Gordon: It’s about survival right?

Bryce Crocker: Well but it’s also this is hard work building mines and constructing operations that’s three or four years of your life you’re not getting back in a part of the world is not adjacent to where you live.  But we’ve got a team that none of us have retired. Everyone’s rolled up their sleeves and got go right on the board and we’re going to make it happen.

Matthew Gordon: Well yeah. Okay. That’s the insider’s view and from an investor’s point of view and again, I’m focused on retail high net worth family offices here, they don’t necessary want to sit around for three or four years with the shares not doing anything. So why don’t you leave it with: Where’s the value coming from. What are you doing and what do you want people to think about when they think about Jervois mining?

Bryce Crocker: Yeah I mean I guess we’re obviously highly focused on shareholder value and it’s not shareholder value just in four years time. I think if you look at what we’re doing we’re creating something because it’s we’re also conscious at the end of the market what’s required. So we are undertaking a drill program currently in Uganda for example. So the PEA which comes out in North America we have to circular as a PEA due to the inclusion of inferred resources. We made a conscious decision not to spend $5M drilling out the resource to measured and indicated to support a higher classification on 43-101 studies. those funds are being redirected to Uganda because as a junior mining companies infill drilling a lateral resource there’s no news flow there that’s going to get our share price going. Uganda is highly prospective it’s the DRC geology crosses the border it doesn’t stop obviously on the boarder and the rock samples that we’ve had published in and you can see the numbers and it’s extremely exciting and that’s where as a junior mining company if I’m going to spend money drilling that’s where I’m going to drill because that’s where I’m going to get in the section that’s going to put a rocket under the stock and do things for retail and do things for us and be able to give us more flexibility. That’s a better use of shareholder funds. If you’re in a $50Bn mining company we would’ve probably spend it elsewhere but it’s at this end of the market. We have to be cognisant of what works from a capital markets perspective but also spending it in the right way insofar as we’re not just drilling for the sake of drilling we’re not promoters we’re not… These aren’t how Mary is that it’s just kind of getting thrown out there hoping that something sticks. There’s… we’re excited by what East Africa represents and I guess from a capital markets perspective we’re trying to create something that’s got some developed world assets stable secure generating cash flow. But you’ve also got for the equity investor and for us as owners of the business that East African upside where if you get it right you can make 10 20 times money or money returns which is what you need. I mean obviously people don’t invest in a company like Jervois they want to invest in a low risk 5%-10% return on mining invest we are going to invest in BHP and Rio. We’re all doing this because we think we can do exceptionally well and generate money on money returns. And essentially the owners of the business alongside us think likewise.

Matthew Gordon: Yeah. And you’ve done it before.

Bryce Crocker: We did it at Xstrata, together with I guess the quality of the team we had at Xstrata was profound. One of the best management teams I think that’s been around the industry and I had the good fortune to kind of sit on the coattails of that and of the quality of the team we’re assembling at Jervois. It’s not everything. The guys we… no one’s , we’re not  alchemists but if you get the right people in place have the right philosophical approach then good things happen and that’s our strategy.

Matthew Gordon: That’s great. Great summary, lovely to catch up with you and see you. I know you’re jumping on a plane tonight but when you come through London do come and see us. Love to hear more about things as they develop

Bryce Crocker: It’s great to talk to you. Thanks for the opportunity.

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